Curse

rii · Dec 18, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

They still are useful in some cases, for example I have some E/W builds that work well with them.

I hope your not refering to the conjure wander as good -.-?

Deadlyjunk · Dec 18, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Dang, that would be funny. Right up there with Unyielding Aura.

Gotta love that skill... if the palladin/tank is shouting you don't heal him...
"Oops, I dismissed Aura"

Otherwise: /signed for boost

Mysterial · Dec 18, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

I hope your not refering to the conjure wander as good -.-?

Um, no.

Phades · Dec 18, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

There are too many things that work to augment physical damage for the conjure line to ever be on par or useful at all. Paired orders, winnowing, and strength of honor to start (the last in the list being the leas managable). Essentially for the conjures to be viable and somewhat equal to other formats, they would basically have to redo greater conflag & winter, nearly double the conjure damage, and end the remove all enchantments clause. This will never happen though, because the individual skills would be far too powerful.

The conjures just seem to be a throwback from the beta/alpha days that was just allowed to go live without being on par with the rest of the current skills. If they functioned more like IW, they might be more useful, but the funny thing would be that they would suddenly become more powerful than most of the direct damage skills for far less energy expended. I don't know what their exact priority list is for balancing less used or less useful skills, but i imagine the conjures would be right up there with "i will survive" on the to do list. Somehow i dont see them making "i will survive" more of a viable skill anytime soon.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Dec 18, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

Yeah, does anybody know why there is no Earth Conjure? I mean there is Earth upgrade for weapons and isn't that logical that an Earth conjure makes sense??

Earth is already the hardest Ele to kill with all of the defensive enchants and powerful attack spells they have. To give them more damage to their basic attack would be making Geo's overpowered.

jibikao · Dec 18, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I am glad more people have contributed their ideas. Looks like we all seem to agree that Conjure needs some kind of adjustments.

I do think you need the corresponding element to use Conjure. Isn't that the reason why created those elemental upgrades? And somebody brought up a good point that if Conjure works with physical dmg, it will make physical dmg way too powerful.

Does anybody know why they put "lose all enchantments" on Conjure? I didn't participate in beta so I don't know if Conjure was too powerful on Ele or for whatever reasons.

I think they should add Conjure Earth. It only makes sense because they designed an Earth upgrade for weapons. Looks like A.Net has a lot of adjustments to make.

SaintGreg · Dec 18, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Paired orders, winnowing, and strength of honor to start (the last in the list being the leas managable).

Strength of honor doesn't add damage to physical, it just adds damage. You can use SoH with Judge's Insight and have it boost, or you could use a conjure (though a conjure on a warrior is silly for the most part)

actionjack · Dec 27, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Sorry for digging this up from the back.. but just got a Brain storm...

Working from jibikao's idea, and from the conditions idea.. how about:

1.) Conjure Lightning: Cause Numbness on the first target you hit for (3-6 second duration)

2.) Conjure Fire: Cause Burn on the first target you hit for (2-5 second duration)

3.) Conjure Frost: Cause Frostbite on the first target you hit for (3-6 second duration)

You still get the attack bonuse, but would also cause those conditions on the first target (and only one target) you hit. Maybe can even combo it with AoE melee attack (like Cyclone Axe) to hit more than one...

Zazoo · Dec 28, 2005, 08:23 AM // 08:23

I play an Ele / W and use Conjore Flame a lot.

Ok its not a great skill, but works nicely in my build.

As an ele I need every scrap of extra damage I can get in melee and this provides a bit extra.
It is very important for me to kill my target as quickly as possible, since an ele cannot take a pounding like a Warrior and as soon as you enemies realise what damage you are putting out they do tend to take it personnally.

I must say that the build is fun if not the most effective ever.

Flame Burst
Mark of Rodgort
Conjure Flame
Sever Artery
Gash
Victory is Mine (e)
Bonettis Defense

tafy69 · Dec 28, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

how about making conjure add to spells too or something like that, would make it much more usefull for a ele then

Flare wouldnt be so bad then

jibikao · Dec 28, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zazoo

I play an Ele / W and use Conjore Flame a lot.

Ok its not a great skill, but works nicely in my build.

As an ele I need every scrap of extra damage I can get in melee and this provides a bit extra.
It is very important for me to kill my target as quickly as possible, since an ele cannot take a pounding like a Warrior and as soon as you enemies realise what damage you are putting out they do tend to take it personnally.

I must say that the build is fun if not the most effective ever.

Flame Burst
Mark of Rodgort
Conjure Flame
Sever Artery
Gash
Victory is Mine (e)
Bonettis Defense

Seems like Conjure Flame is the only more useful Conjure of all...much like Ranger's Fire Slinger build. lol

I did try E/W with Hundred Blades and Conjure Flame. Well, the damage is decent on caster (again!) but it's terrible on warrior/ranger. I need melee range for HB + CF to work and you know how weak Ele can be in melee range.

I still think adding some kind of bonus effects on each Conjure is the best idea, or simply create some upgrades for staff that adds damage when Conjure is on.

Mosgerion · Dec 28, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

So, to make it that Conjure benefits MORE to Ele...I suggest adding bonus to each Conjure.

1.) Conjure Lightning: % to penetrate armor. The % goes up for each level so an Ele with lvl 16 Air will definitely benefit more from Conjure.

2.) Conjure Fire: % to Burn for 1s. The % goes up for each level so an Ele with lvl 16 Fire will definitely benefit more from Conjure. The Burning condition can be 2s once it's past lvl 12-14 Fire.

3.) Conjure Frost: % to Slow for 1s. The % goes up for each level so an Ele with lvl 16 Water will definitely benefit more from Conjure. The Slow condition can be 2s once it's past lvl 12-14 Water.

Jibikao has the right idea, in my opinion, though boosts could go up a bit. We could work it similar to
Conjure Lightning: For 60 seconds, if you're wielding a lightning weapon, your attacks strike for an additional 3...18 lightning damage and have 1...10% chance to have 15% armor penetration.

Conjure Flame: For 60 seconds, if you're wielding a flame weapon, your attacks strike for an additional 3...18 flame damage and have 1...10% chance to set the enemy on fire for 2 seconds.

Conjure Frost: For 60 seconds, if you're wielding a cold weapon, your attacks strike for an additional 3...18 cold damage and have 1...10% chance to slow the enemy by 66% for 4 seconds.

jibikao · Dec 28, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosgerion

Jibikao has the right idea, in my opinion, though boosts could go up a bit. We could work it similar to
Conjure Lightning: For 60 seconds, if you're wielding a lightning weapon, your attacks strike for an additional 3...18 lightning damage and have 1...10% chance to have 15% armor penetration.

Conjure Flame: For 60 seconds, if you're wielding a flame weapon, your attacks strike for an additional 3...18 flame damage and have 1...10% chance to set the enemy on fire for 2 seconds.

Conjure Frost: For 60 seconds, if you're wielding a cold weapon, your attacks strike for an additional 3...18 cold damage and have 1...10% chance to slow the enemy by 66% for 4 seconds.

Glad you like the ideas! I didn't offer any concrete numbers because they really need to test things out to see what % works the best. I just think that bonus from Conjure is a great use of the skill.

zxerox · Jan 04, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

i dont think conjures need upgrading. since the +10 or so damage only applies to attacks (wand, sword, bow etc) and not spells, conjures have little effect on eles who will be using spells more, not very many wand attacks. i do think there should be conjure stone or something though.

Ominous · Jan 04, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Yeah i think they should just make the damage armor ignoring damage. Add some cool visual effects to your weapon. Change it to 5E recharge 30 sec.

Adding conditions or effects to the damage will make the skill to powerful. The flame would be like having Rodgorts Invoction on the whole time. Frost would be like spaming storm shards. Conjur lightning would be like having lightning strike on turbo with tigers fury, flurry, or frenzy. I know most of you guys that say add conditions to Conjur are Rangers. Rangers just want to be all King Uber Goober. As for you losing all enchantments. Try casting conjur first then your other enchantments

Mosgerion · Jan 05, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ominous

Yeah i think they should just make the damage armor ignoring damage. Add some cool visual effects to your weapon. Change it to 5E recharge 30 sec.

Adding conditions or effects to the damage will make the skill to powerful. The flame would be like having Rodgorts Invoction on the whole time. Frost would be like spaming storm shards. Conjur lightning would be like having lightning strike on turbo with tigers fury, flurry, or frenzy. I know most of you guys that say add conditions to Conjur are Rangers. Rangers just want to be all King Uber Goober. As for you losing all enchantments. Try casting conjur first then your other enchantments

Heh. You make it sound as if it's a 100% chance! As it is (You know, off the top of my head), you'll get a 10% chance for it to trigger at 12 points in the skill, which means that it certainly wouldn't be a non-stop whatever.

Making the damage armor-ignoring is intriguing, but unbalanced. For one, I'm sure every Warrior/Ranger out there would jump at the chance to increase their damage by 16 per hit.

Also, the removal of all Enchantments could be circumvented by casting other spells later, it becomes a pain to re-apply it, especially if you have some enchantments that you can't reapply without a long wait (Attunments, for example.)

GeneralThierry · Jan 05, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Maybe I am an outcast but I love conjure lightning. I am a shock warrior and I use it all the time. I have my air pumped up to either 9 or 10. For every single hit, I hit for an extra 10 hp. So in total, even if I am using a sword, I take about 30-35 hp every time I hit. This isn't random PvE monsters, I am doing this against PvP warriors all the time. What you need is a weapon that has 15% damage while enchanted. Conjure lightning is an enchantement. Coupled with the extra 20% damage you do when you customize your weapon, its a leathal combo.

People often put down 100 blades but I think its most effective when using conjure lightning because instead of hitting twice, you actually hit 4 times on every target that is effected. So if you have a group of 3 people together, you are dealing out a total of 12 hits. The great thing about that is if you hit that many people, your adrenaline shoots up extremely fast, then you can shock your target, follow up with galrash slash then final thrust, then their dead. The person is dead in the matter of about 10 seconds. Like I said, I use this combo in PvP all the time and own pretty much any warrior that I meet, including the ever sacred axe warriors.

Phades · Jan 05, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralThierry

Maybe I am an outcast but I love conjure lightning. I am a shock warrior and I use it all the time. I have my air pumped up to either 9 or 10. For every single hit, I hit for an extra 10 hp. So in total, even if I am using a sword, I take about 30-35 hp every time I hit. This isn't random PvE monsters, I am doing this against PvP warriors all the time. What you need is a weapon that has 15% damage while enchanted. Conjure lightning is an enchantement. Coupled with the extra 20% damage you do when you customize your weapon, its a leathal combo.

People often put down 100 blades but I think its most effective when using conjure lightning because instead of hitting twice, you actually hit 4 times on every target that is effected. So if you have a group of 3 people together, you are dealing out a total of 12 hits. The great thing about that is if you hit that many people, your adrenaline shoots up extremely fast, then you can shock your target, follow up with galrash slash then final thrust, then their dead. The person is dead in the matter of about 10 seconds. Like I said, I use this combo in PvP all the time and own pretty much any warrior that I meet, including the ever sacred axe warriors.

I am sure you will be happy to know that you are just feeding real casters energy with near useless enchantments like that or causing damage to yourself by having them up. You are also not taking advantage of physical damage augmentations that far outweigh the elemental equivilant in conjure. But, that is ok though, continue to kill off the stupid w/mo characters that still use mending.

GeneralThierry · Jan 05, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Please, I can destroy easiley pretty much any warrior that I come up against. The thing about conjure lightning is that every hit, you actually hit twice. Hence you can build up your adrenaline skills faster.

Blkout · Jan 11, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Unless I overlooked it in this thread, you don't lose all enchantments with Conjure if you cast it first then use your other enchantments. I use an Air Ele and I use Conjure Lightning, I just cast it first then cast the rest of my enchants afterwards. No problems at all.